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Rules Sub-Committee 13-07-2009

YVA Rules Sub Committee Meeting

Leeds Metropolitan University – Becketts Park

Monday 13 July 2009

Meeting opened at 7.35pm


Doug Lawson Barnsley.V.C & YVA Men’s League Secretary

Glenn Wraith Barnsley.V.C & YVA Ladies League Secretary

Martin Worsnop Beverley.V.C & HEYVA League Secretary

Tim Godson York.V.C & YVA Regional Secretary

Colin Elsey Hawks.V.C

Ian Twitchen Menwith Hill

Dan Slater HMP Moorlands

Clark Antcliff Sheffield.V.C

Chris Hallsworth Harrogate.V.C

Dora Tatai Harrogate.V.C

Oliver Gregory Leeds.V.C

Gordon Fallowfield York Phoenix.V.C

Stewart Miller York.V.C

Antony Peacock York.V.C


Leeds Carnegie – Sam Stewart sent his apologies (A big thanks to Sam for arranging the room for our use.)

Boathouse 1 & Boathouse 2 – Simon Bailey sent his apologies.

Hull University were not represented at the meeting.

DL  thanked everybody for their time and undoubted effort in making this meeting.

A very pleasing turnout – the email vote and the attendance at this meeting suggested that there was clear support for a review of the league format.

Of the 17 men’s teams from the 2008/09 season who took part in the email vote – 12 voted “yes” to a review and further discussion  - 11 were represented at this meeting.

5 teams voted “no” – 2 were represented at this meeting.

DL then outlined the proposals which had been twice modified in the light of input from members around the region via email, from views expressed at the AGM and from discussions with various members at recent grass and beach tournaments. Questions were then fielded.

The majority had no problem with extending the Men’s Premier League to 12 even though this may lead to additional matches during the season. No one spoke against.

The majority had no problem with the idea of a conference based league, but some were unhappy at the prospect of not playing all of the teams in the league in a given season.

All were in favour of maintaining the standard of the Men’s Premier League and agreed that teams seeking promotion should in future play off against teams who finish at the bottom of the Premier League.

CE & MW made counterproposals – variations on how the conference part of the league format could operate.

MW’s proposal seemed most popular and when we voted on the 3 proposals on the table MW’s was passed unanimously   

Yorkshire Men's Premier League in 2009/10 will comprise 12 teams

1st Phase - every body plays each other once and a league table produced.

2nd Phase

Teams that finish in the top 6 will then play each other once more to produce the final top 6 places

Teams that finish in the bottom 6 will play each other once more to produce the final bottom six places.

A team that finishes 6th at the end of the first phase can finish no lower than 6th (this is because their 2nd phase games will be tougher) but it may possible for them to finish higher.

A team that finishes in 7th after the first phase can finish no higher than 7th overall even if their points total is more than the finally placed 6th team (this is because their 2nd phase games will be easier) but of course it is still possible for them to finish in 11th or 12th place at the end of the second phase.

The bottom two of the bottom 6 (after the 2nd phase) - 11th and 12th place effectively – will have to play off with teams wishing to enter the league and could potentially be relegated.

So all Premier Men's teams will play 16 matches this season instead of 18. This will alleviate the pressure on clubs who we hope will support the development leagues (more of which below)

Yorkshire Men’s Division One

The support for the reintroduction of the area associations has been growing and there was clear support at this meeting.

DL stressed that it was important to re-establish the old area associations even if it meant that there were only 4 teams playing in them in the first season. We need a focal point for new teams rather than wait for enough new teams and then start a league.

We did at one point in the meeting consider running a transitional season were Div One would exist alongside the area associations to provide a means by which teams could gain entry to the Premier League and give opportunity for teams in small local leagues the chance to play more volleyball.

However, as the discussions progressed it became clear that there was overwhelming support for the creation of the local associations and the ending of Div One.

There was genuine support for the notion that new teams would be less daunted at the prospect of playing locally rather than face the logistical nightmare of having to travel the length and breadth of Yorkshire and would therefore be more inclined to join the leagues – evidence from around the room suggested that there were in fact teams out there who would be more inclined to get involved on this basis.

DL & GW were very confident about developing a thriving league in the South and will resurrect the old SYVA committee.

OG was very enthusiastic about getting the WYVA up and running and so took on a similar responsibility there.

MW was happy with the new arrangements and welcomed the reintroduction of the South and West Associations to complement the long established HEYVA league.

Unfortunately, representatives from North Yorkshire clubs, though buying into the concept, still felt unable to re-establish the old NYVA citing a lack of clubs to form a viable league. So it was agreed that until the number of teams increased, North Yorkshire teams would play in the West Yorkshire League

So, Yorkshire Men's Division One is no more !

Clubs wishing to develop with a view to competing at Men’s Premier level will join one of the area leagues, along with clubs wishing to develop new talent will also enter teams in these area leagues.

Each area association would be responsible for the setting up of their own leagues – format, rules and player eligibility.

The top teams from each Area league would play each other in a triangular at the end of the season for the Mitre Cup. (When the NYVA comes on line at some point in the future this will become a four team tournament.)

The top team from each area is also entitled to enter the Yorkshire Premier Men’s Challenge – a play-off, which will include the 11th and 12th placed teams from the Premier League.

It was agreed that YVA wanted to see limitations placed upon teams taking part in any play-off for the Men’s Yorkshire Premier League.

  1. A play-off team must be “men only”, considering that it is a Men’s only league that they are attempting to join.
  2. A play-off team cannot use any player who has played in the Men’s Premier League more than 3 times that season (for any club).
  3. A play-off team cannot use any player who has played NVL3 or above in that season.
  4. Players may only play for a team involved in the play offs if they have been registered to play for that team throughout the season. 

<<< DL - I don’t think however, that we considered teams who might be tempted to bring “ringers” in at the last minute – so until we have chance to discuss this further might I draw your attention to YVA rule 4.6 that says “ No player may transfer between teams in the final month of the season”  -  better still if this rule was worded to such that no player may register after a certain date in the season -  an amendment for the pre season meeting perhaps ?  >>>

In effect this means that a team may use higher league players and they may include lady players and they may infact win the league and go on to play for the Mitre Cup, but unless they comply with the rulings above they may not enter the play offs for a place in the Men’s Premier League.

It is vital however, that clubs understand that “the associations” are “development leagues” for both new teams and established clubs wishing to develop players - youngsters, ladies, fringe men’s premier players and the inexperienced.

We also agreed that if the team who came top of their association did not seek promotion via the play offs then the team that finished 2nd would be given the chance but we would not extend this invitation to the 3rd and subsequently the 4th positioned teams and so on until we found someone who wanted to enter the play-offs.  

<<< DL - However, I would like to suggest that this is not something for YVA to decide and that in fact this now lies with the area association committees themselves as to who they recommend to be put forward for the play-offs.

My reasoning for this, is that if  Leeds and Boathouse teams, or Sheffield and Barnsley teams, top their respective leagues but have no desire to pursue a place in the Men’s Premier League, because they used Men’s Premier players or Lady players and therefore cannot comply with the play offs eligibility – then a “self supporting” team such as Garforth or Wakefield Polonia or Rotherham or Worksop who may have finished either 3rd or 4th in the league could claim that the higher placed teams were holding back their development !

So in South Yorkshire we intend to put forward to the play-offs the highest placed, self supporting team that meets the play off criteria and is capable of pursuing a Premier League place unsupported. >>>

There had been growing support for a mixed league in Yorkshire but as a consequence of this meeting and the reintroduction of the area leagues, it was felt that clubs had  every opportunity to develop female players in the area leagues, if they so wished. The idea of a mixed league was dropped.

DL thanked everyone for their attendance and contributions to what was a very positive and very productive meeting.

Meeting closed  9.30pm